DRM or no DRM?

[galaxyAbstractor]

Ok I got an thing in school that I should do an "Argumentated speech" or something like that, so I choosed "Stop DRM".

What do you think about it? I think it is bad. Really bad.

It was meant to stop piracy, but in my point of view, I think it contributes to piracy. Since when a cracked version appears, more gonna download that instead.

Look at Spore for an example. The DRM it uses is rootkit-classed secuROM. Yes, it is classed as one of the worst sort of viruses, rootkit, the one you can't delete and messes with your computer.

Also I heard that DRM-protected music only works on the computer you bought it on. And that you will lose your collection if you reinstall your computer. I don't know if that is true tho, but I have heard about it a lot as I stumble.

So what do you think about DRM?

[rlodge]

Since there are only two choices, I voted "I Hate It". I do not hate it because of the reasons many may think.

I pay for my movies (my wife's movies, actually) and have a collection of DVDs numbering over 850 titles. I pay for my music, which, after the famous Sony root-kit, I haven't bought any. I pay for my software or find free alternatives, as in Open Source Software.

I dislike DRM as it is now because, to a strong degree, it trounces on our "fair use" rights. I should be able to make a backup of software and movies to prevent me having to re-purchase them in the event that the original gets damaged. Accidents do happen.

I also dislike the idea that someone can tell me that I can only play my music on certain devices and will refer back to the Sony root kit. Glad that story broke before I tried to play any of my daughter's CDs on my home system, or, God forbid, tried to let her put her music on her mp3 player ala ripping it to the hard drive first so she could easily upload the songs.

The idea behind DRM is fair enough. Stop people from copyright infringement. The execution of it is to tell me that I cannot make backup copies of my media and basically tells me that the content providers are selling me a $15 - $20 movie DVD & plastic case but the movie is still theirs.

The other thing that bothers me (and I may be wrong) is that I heard that there was a "tax" placed on all blank media to help content providers recoup losses due to piracy. Now they have DRM and laws that prevent me from backing up my media (DMCA). Did they remove the "tax" from the blank media? I never saw anything saying that they did.

[Smith6612]

Nice choice of topic vigge! Be prepared to defend yourself big time if you really want to hammer down the debates . Since a lot of us are nerds here, I'm sure you should do great on this topic. I fugured something like this would come around this site sometime or another.

I'm personally a hater of DRM here as well. Sure, I use Steam which is DRM itself, but if you've ever used that program, Steam is an extremely lightweight DRM system. Basically, it's a system that lets you download your games as many times as you'd like, install it on as many PCs as you want, and even play your games offline while you're not connected to the Steam network for any duration. Steam however, has had to get DRM added on top of itself by the companies, and Valve themselves have apologized for such actions from the companies who are letting them host the games on Steam. Because of Steam's DRM and how lightweight it is, that is the only DRM I have ever used; ever, and I personally like it a lot. Never given me a problem one bit.

SecuROM however, that's one thing I will always say no to. Sure, companies have tried over and over again to prevent piracy, but that is basically as impossible as impossible can be as all DRM really is, is software, and any and all pieces of software can and will be hacked, often within minutes to hours of getting in the hands of a hacker (and then getting a non-DRM version of whatever on the P2P networks very shortly after). I've had my share of issues with SecuROM, stating that it couldn't launch games because of, say it can't read a certain sector of a CD. SecuROM has even prevented me from copying my own disk for my own personal backups. One of these games is Sim Theme Park. That was one of my most favorite PC games a while ago, and the disk has gotten quite beat up. Since I'm pretty sure they won't exchange my disk for a new one anymore, my only option is to make an ISO image of the disk with some info missing to make a backup of it.

That mishap Sony had was definately a bad one, and they sure had to pay quite a large sum of money for screwing up people's computers for even those who don't have CD burners on their PCs. Millions apon Millions of tainted CDs is what was given out, and these did everything from locking out people's PCs to preventing them using their CD drive for legit purposes.

As stated on another forum I go to, DRM is going to be the downfall of everything. Look at Spore for example. Spore had a record amount of downloads recorded on The Pirate Bay on the first few days simply because hackers had gotten a hold of the game, hacked the DRM out of it, and seeded it to the torrent sites. What happened to all of those sales? EA apparently responded to that by releasing a patch days later that released some of the grip of DRM or something else. Well, EA took a move similiar to Sony by stating that 1, the disks cannot be copied for backup purposes (perfectly legal in the copyright laws the last I checked), 2, you get three installs, and 3, you must be connected to the internet to activate the game, or no game for you! Yeah, you can call up EA for more activations, but I've heard that's just a pain to do, and besides, don't a lot of people now days have multiple computers on which they play games on? You know, gaming PC, laptop, spare PC, work computer maybe?

So yeah, I truely hate DRM. One of the benefits about running the 64-bit version of Vista on my gaming computer is the fact that every DRM software like StarForce and SecuROM for games, won't be able to install themselves into my system kernel for me to have to fish out there in the long run because of the locked kernel, or even onto my computer. It at least gives me assurance. Otherwise, I forgot to state before about DRM. When it comes down to games, DRM (excluding Steam!) is well known to just wasting CPU cycles and RAM. That's why people often times say the pirated versions of games run better than the retail versions of games. But honestly, DRM is the downfall of media sales. People now a days thanks to global telecommunications and word of mouth know what DRM does. I buy every single thing, movies, music, games, software, you name it, and I shouldn't have to be forced with backdoor software installing itself and playing screw-up with me on things I've bought. Now a days, I look for non DRM'ed software, or I buy my stuff on Steam. If anywhere I hear there's DRM, I don't buy it. I was also going to buy some new games from Steam as well, however since Valve stated there was 3rd party DRM on it and they are sorry for that, I keep my money for other things such as video card upgrades or paying for the internet.

EDIT:

May I add, I found this online as well. Scroll down a little bit and you'll see Steve Jobs saying that he personally feels that EMI selling DRM-Free music on iTunes is a step in the right direction. I couldn't agree any more with Steve.

http://www.emigroup.com/Press/2007/press18.htm

[Livewire]

The only problem I have with DRM is copy protection on pc games in particular - it's gotten so aggressive that I have ran into, on more than one occasion, where with a legit disc in the drive, it reads it as a copy and promptly uninstalls itself.

Which I find odd frankly. I mean here I've got a legit copy of a game but it doesn't load because SecuROM, in its infinite wisdom, has decided the game isn't a legal copy, and uninstalls the game from the system. A game that took 15 minutes to install for reasons more confusing, no less.

Ended up using some instructions I found on a piracy site - turns out I had to bypass it just to play a crash happy game that wasn't worth protecting in the first place (yeah it looks nice, but whats the point if it's crashing the whole time). It felt like the Devs went overkill protecting it instead of bug-checking it.

Now, if the DRM doesn't cause any problems on my system, I could care less it's there. To date I've found maybe four that let me make a backup copy without it throwing a hissy fit. The rest? Back to those piracy sites I go just to make a backup of a game I own. What a wonderful protection system, so good I'm going to sites that are breaking the protection within days of release, and in some cases (*COUGH SPORE CRYSIS AHEM*) breaking it and releasing it BEFORE it's actually released. Congrats - millions of dollars spent, and some sweaty nerd behind a flatscreen monitor with nudie pictures for a desktop wallpaper is breaking it in days.

Oh and in case it's not obvious, I don't support it. The day it lets me back it up without being overkill about what hoops I have to jump through to play a legit game, I'll support it. Frankly I don't think that day is coming.


Disclaimer: I do not promote the circumvention of copyright protection unless said copyright protection causes the game to be unplayable on a legit system with a legit disc and a legit serial. I'm looking at you, Bioshock (my experiences don't seem to reflect everyones, but it does appear I'm not the only one whose install undoes itself with a legit disc).

Also, no offense to the sweaty nerds who are helping me make backups of games I own and want backups of. Couldn't game without you (I have saved at least $400 by breaking backup discs instead of the originals).

[galaxyAbstractor]

Nice choice of topic vigge! Be prepared to defend yourself big time if you really want to hammer down the debates .

Why should I defend myself if everyone hates it(or well, most)?

I'm personally a hater of DRM here as well. Sure, I use Steam which is DRM itself, but if you've ever used that program, Steam is an extremely lightweight DRM system. Basically, it's a system that lets you download your games as many times as you'd like, install it on as many PCs as you want, and even play your games offline while you're not connected to the Steam network for any duration. Steam however, has had to get DRM added on top of itself by the companies, and Valve themselves have apologized for such actions from the companies who are letting them host the games on Steam. Because of Steam's DRM and how lightweight it is, that is the only DRM I have ever used; ever, and I personally like it a lot. Never given me a problem one bit.

I agree, if there is a DRM system that is not bad, it is Steam.

Also, no offense to the sweaty nerds who are helping me make backups of games I own and want backups of. Couldn't game without you (I have saved at least $400 by breaking backup discs instead of the originals).

Haha yeah :D

[Spartan Erik]

The only form of DRM I've encountered is Steam-based games for Valve, and Punkbuster for COD4. Neither of them cause system instability or wreak havoc on other computer functions like SecuROM. Very few people like DRM. The fact that SecuROM is present on Far Cry 2 is preventing me from buying it.

DRM won't stop piracy, it will just stop legit computer gaming.

[blackhnd]

DRM sucks, I have to admit. It's the main reason why programs like LimeWire exist. Lucky most free FPS games aren't DRM-ed.

[Smith6612]

Why should I defend myself if everyone hates it(or well, most)?

Just for those n00bs who don't know enough about DRM . Simple as that.

[Livewire]

Lucky most free FPS games aren't DRM-ed.

If it's free it doesn't need protecting; DRM's supposed to protect theft, which isn't an issue really when it's already free to begin with

[blackhnd]

Atari is smart. They didn't package any type of DRM checker in the RCT3 series and Thrillville installers, they believe in the use of serial codes, which are much more random that gay DRM. You buy a copy, you get a legit serial with it.

The Developers of most other retail PC games on the other hand, are not so smart. SecuROM is useless, as people will hack it to bits and steal the game's audio, video and other stuff, or release it as a hacked version on torrent sites like TPB, Mininova and others.

Just because a game's free doesn't mean it won't have some form of DRM. Soldier Front, for example, houses all its audio in proprietary SFF format, which, in itself, is a form of DRM.

Overall, DRM sucks and should be abolished. End rant.