The Medicine, The Doctor...They DON'T HELP..

[John Klyne]

I made a poll also...please only vote once you are done reading this crossfire and replying.

Okay I ran into a lot of opposition in the chat we have here, about doctors and their study of medicine not really helping people.

Well, I'll say this, I do believe that Doctors and their study of medicine is absolutely.....a bunch of garbage, and their medicine is made to only help them make more money...and I believe you should stay away from them, unless you are at a point of no return, or at a point, when you know you either take the medicine or you die.

Please feel free to say why I am soo wrong. Because I have so many reasons I am against going to the doctors for.

I voted...

Doctors are a bunch of, garbage with their study of medicine.
Edit:
Anyone want to contradict what I am saying, I know you all go to the doctors.

[tittat]

Sorry to shoot you dow John Klyne, but i have to go with Doctors. Yeah i know there are Doctors who are interested only in making some real money, but all are not like that. Some Doctors are really devotional.
I am wondering how John Klyne arrived at the conclusion that Doctors are a bunch of, garbage

[Spartan Erik]

Well I intend on becoming a doctor, so obviously I only have good things to say about the majority of them. Some people question their salaries, but as I'm going through college, and soon (hopefully) medical school and residency, I see that giving up 12 years of your life for schooling isn't even worth their high salaries. I could've easily been a business major and be making fistfuls of cash (well, maybe not right now with the economy, but later on it'd be good). It's a labor of love, but I imagine some doctors out there do work for the money.

I haven't visited a doctor in many years just because nothing is wrong with me at the mental/physical level. However, I could have cancer or something at the microscopic level and not know it which kind of creeps me out. I am a heavy advocate of prevention and early detection, yet I myself don't visit a doctor regularly. Why? Probably cost, after all I am human. Once I start getting some income going I'll start.

I'm sure some doctors do it for the money, but several family friends whom I know are doctors do it because they like to help people (hard to find these days). American medicine however is in trouble. We need to stop making courses that have no application to medicine a requirement, and emphasize more courses centralized around patient care. It is why we're falling behind other countries, we've become so specialized we have forgot the general picture of what medicine is for: to help people. Also, more research needs to go into Eastern medicine so we can produce better and cheaper synthetics.

If there's anyone you should blame, it may be the pharmaceutical companies that charge exorbitant amounts of money

[John Klyne]

Sorry to shoot you dow John Klyne, but i have to go with Doctors. Yeah i know there are Doctors who are interested only in making some real money, but all are not like that. Some Doctors are really devotional.
I am wondering how John Klyne arrived at the conclusion that Doctors are a bunch of, garbage

(When I say whatever I say in this forum, it is my opinion, and yes I understand many are devoted to helping people, and could care less about the money, I have wanted to become a doctor, a lawyer, and a business owner, I like doctors ( have many friends who work in the medical industry, but...)

Well, lets see, someone goes to college and becomes a doctor by studying medicine. They rarely study the cause of the disease or illness, and many people who make these medications who these doctors prescribe are all in it for the money.

Lets see....the medical category and the drug category in terms of sales make BILLIONS of dollars a year. So tell me, why would these people "Actually" want to cure someone, if they make sooo much money off of sick people?

Lets say you get sick....you go to the doctor, and find you had sinuses, and were getting bronchitis....the doctor gives you this and that medicine, and a pretty nice bill, if you have no insurance in some cases. Well lets say you ask the doctor what is the cause and why did I get this or that sickness?....the doctor will not answer to the best of his ability for

a. He does not know the answer..(they don't really teach the *real* causes of things like this in college to doctors, let along anyone else).
b. The doctor knows the answer and gives a small reply, ow its because...the reply's do NOT EVEN HELP, the DOCTOR DOES NOT EVEN tell you how to prevent this ....but the doctor, just tells you to take this or that medicine and those antibiotics... ( just like the dumb colleges chose to teach the doctor to reply in these situations ).

Well okay, the doctor helped you your disease or illness, with medicine. Well, ask the doctor...doesn't medicine make you better in one case but damages or makes you worse somewhere else?.......They will hesitantly answer yes....and ask them why....they will not know how to reply.

I could go on and on......please keep on making this debate grow, as I can say a lot of any point thrown out at me.

Well I intend on becoming a doctor

1. Some people question their salaries,

2 It's a labor of love, but I imagine some doctors out there do work for the money.

3 I haven't visited a doctor in many years just because nothing is wrong with me at the mental/physical level. However, I could have cancer or something at the microscopic level and not know it which kind of creeps me out. I am a heavy advocate of prevention and early detection, yet I myself don't visit a doctor regularly. Why? Probably cost, after all I am human. Once I start getting some income going I'll start.

4 I'm sure some doctors do it for the money, but several family friends whom I know are doctors do it because they like to help people (hard to find these days).

5 It is why we're falling behind other countries, we've become so specialized we have forgot the general picture of what medicine is for: to help people. Also, more research needs to go into Eastern medicine so we can produce better and cheaper synthetics.

6 If there's anyone you should blame, it may be the pharmaceutical companies that charge exorbitant amounts of money

1. Many people do question their salaries, but money makes the world go round, in my opinion, their salaries are okay for what they do give you.....they give you, prescription medicine....

2. I wanted to become a doctor....until I did some reading, then I did A LOT MORE READING....and well.. I would love to full out help people....but doctors in my OPINION ONLY, help the symptom NOT THE CAUSE.....like I said, working on the symptom is not really a cure for your sickness or illness, but a cure for a mere symptom.

3. I hope you do make more money, so you can work on your medical problems if any do occur in the future. But.....tell me this...

Do you have any stress?...or gray hair?

Are you eating only 3 meals a day, with fruits, and food that is high in vitamins?

(not trying to be mean or anything like that, but if you don't want to answer this, it is ok)....are you over weight? If you are....past medication could have caused it....feel free to ask why after you reply

have you ever taken an antibiotic?.....do you know what a candida overgrowth may be, if you do, please do share....

---
4. My friends and family especially my cousin, is in the industry to HELP to the best of his ability the sick people, he is always working extra hours devoting his time for another....I do like doctors...and their devotion, and caring that they are showing, but I DO NOT LIKE their methods and in my opinion, their methods are the real CAUSE of their patients FUTURE ILLNESS OR DISEASE.

5. to help people............haha....those that come up with the methods to help people....are in it for the money....if they DO CURE YOU, or HELP YOU, they LOSE MONEY, THEY LOVE MONEY.

6. pharmaceutical companies that charge exorbitant amounts of money..........I hate those companies, and would personally love it, when they start losing billions instead of making billions......they don't help you, they are a FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY....the BIGGEST IN THE WORLD...them and the ones who actually sit there making these *helpful medicine*.

Please respond to those, I love this subject of debate.
Edit:
Anyone want to help out, and make sure that doctors do have a good name in my view of them?

People were so eager to some up with something to say in chat, against my accusations so I am only wondering, did anything I wrote here or said on chat a couple of days ago, change your views of the medical industry and their so called * help* with medicine?
Edit:
I see only 2 people posted, but 5 people or so voted...want to share why you came up with your answer?

[Sohail]

Well I would say that doctors are obviously helping us, we wouldn't exactly survive without them would we, they are great people who know what their doing (well at least the good ones do) and without their help, advice, medicine or knowledge their would be chaos in the world with diseases and so. Remember the Cowpox story?

[John Klyne]

Well I would say that doctors are obviously helping us, we wouldn't exactly survive without them would we, they are great people who know what their doing (well at least the good ones do) and without their help, advice, medicine or knowledge their would be chaos in the world with diseases and so. Remember the Cowpox story?

Many doctors are trying their best to actually help you. And yes many people would not survive without them, and yes there would be diseases and such.

But the thing is, the medicine they give you, help you in one aspect, but cause problems in another. Their methods are questionable, by many people all over the world.

They give you this medication, okay finally, one symptom is gone but then they cause many problems elsewhere. Just think about this, If it was not for them making money off of you, and your medication, they would lose money, and thus they really don't make the best medication or give you the best treatment, out there. If they did, they would lose a lot, and they don't want that.

Many people who make the medication, say this...if anyone else comes up with the cure to cancer, I WILL TRY TO KILL THAT PERSON. IT IS TRUE, the person who does find the cure, will make BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, and like I said, people do not really want to help you, when you are sick, but want to get as much money as possible from you.

---
EDIT: I found someone voted, Doctors are a bunch of garbage...anyone that voted that want to share, why they agree with me? If that is okay?

[Mongoose92]

They rarely study the cause of the disease or illness, and many people who make these medications who these doctors prescribe are all in it for the money.

I'm afraid that's simply untrue, my mother is a GP, and if you were to look at her books, in this case the ones documenting various diseases, or even the British Medical Journal, any disease documented will have (if known) the common causes, risk areas, and if not known, it will state possible theories.

Lets see....the medical category and the drug category in terms of sales make BILLIONS of dollars a year. So tell me, why would these people "Actually" want to cure someone, if they make sooo much money off of sick people?

Because that is how they make their profit. Of course they sell drugs that treat symptoms as well, but even something as simple as Ibuprofen or Aspirin treats the cause as well as the symptom, as they are anti-inflammatory. If the medication did not affect the disease itself, then it would not be marketed as a cure

and a pretty nice bill, if you have no insurance in some cases. Well lets say you ask the doctor what is the cause and why did I get this or that sickness?....the doctor will not answer to the best of his ability for

a. He does not know the answer..(they don't really teach the *real* causes of things like this in college to doctors, let along anyone else).

See above.

b. The doctor knows the answer and gives a small reply, ow its because...the reply's do NOT EVEN HELP, the DOCTOR DOES NOT EVEN tell you how to prevent this ....but the doctor, just tells you to take this or that medicine and those antibiotics...

Again, untrue. This may seem the case as viruses, for example cannot be combated from the outside, as the work inside our bodies cells, meaning destroying the virus would destroy our cells. The doctor will often suggest inoculations and other forms of prevention.

Well okay, the doctor helped you your disease or illness, with medicine. Well, ask the doctor...doesn't medicine make you better in one case but damages or makes you worse somewhere else?....... They will hesitantly answer yes....and ask them why....they will not know how to reply.

No one denies that certain medicines do have side affects, but the doctor will warn you about these, but the vast majority of medication has no serious side-effects, and can be taken as ordered without affecting you in a large way. A GP, the person who prescribes you the medicine is not expected to know the details of each individual drug, as they are doctors not chemists. They know the effects and side-effects, and have to decide whether the drug or medication in question will either solve or suppress the illness.

1. Many people do question their salaries, but money makes the world go round, in my opinion, their salaries are okay for what they do give you.....they give you, prescription medicine....

Of course they prescribe you medicine, but also various types of therapy, simple common sense advice, ways to make your life easier during the course of the illness.

2. I wanted to become a doctor....until I did some reading, then I did A LOT MORE READING....and well.. I would love to full out help people....but doctors in my OPINION ONLY, help the symptom NOT THE CAUSE.....like I said, working on the symptom is not really a cure for your sickness or illness, but a cure for a mere symptom.

Again see above, it is not always possible to attack the cause, often the body must do this itself, in which case the doctors job is to make life as comfortable as possible, and aid the immune system in any way possible.

...are you over weight? If you are....past medication could have caused it...

There are countless cases where medicines have had unexpected side-affects, and yes, I'm sure an increase in weight may be one of them. But, there are multiple times the amount of people who are now living a better life after being treated. My grandfather for example, enjoys an active lifestyle at over 80, despite numerous heart problems because he has been treated by doctors.

4. My friends and family especially my cousin, is in the industry to HELP to the best of his ability the sick people, he is always working extra hours devoting his time for another....I do like doctors...and their devotion, and caring that they are showing, but I DO NOT LIKE their methods and in my opinion, their methods are the real CAUSE of their patients FUTURE ILLNESS OR DISEASE.

I don't mean to be offensive, but frankly blaming a treatment for the illnesses of the future is ridiculous, the main causes of diseases are bacteria and viruses, you cannot blame a doctor for someone having picked up either. However, you can thank the doctor for helping you recover from both.

5. to help people............haha... those that come up with the methods to help people....are in it for the money....if they DO CURE YOU, or HELP YOU, they LOSE MONEY, THEY LOVE MONEY.

Undoubtedly, there is a huge amount of money in the treatment industry, but to say that everyone who develops a treatment does it for money is a skewed statement. If their medication did not cure you, or at the least aid you in some form, they would not be approved, they would not be prescribed, and they wouldn't sell. The cost of research is huge, if there wasn't a large amount of profit in such an industry, then we could not progress in the world of medicine. There is a lot we don't know, but we are working to find out.

6. pharmaceutical companies that charge exorbitant amounts of money..........I hate those companies, and would personally love it, when they start losing billions instead of making billions......they don't help you, they are a FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY....the BIGGEST IN THE WORLD...them and the ones who actually sit there making these *helpful medicine*.

I think this is your main issue, but your hatred is not a valid point against them. Being a for profit industry does not exclude the possibility of helping people, and as I have said, they need to make profit in order to do research. I am not denying there is an aspect of personal gain in this industry, like any other, but even this means the industry has to do what it is meant to do, as if it didn't, it wouldn't stay economically functional.

If our health industry collapsed, suddenly the amount of deaths per day would multiply. Where would we get anesthetic for operations, and antibiotics to treat sceptic and infected wounds.

What would happen to my friends when they got injured during an operation abroad, or when I got stabbed by a gang after a night out with some friends?

I'm sure you know someone who is diabetic, what would happen to them without the hormones they need to control their blood sugar levels?

What would happen to your parents when they get older and need medication to keep their blood pressure under control?

What happens to you when your kidneys shut down due to inflammation?

Will you still say all medication is bad and doesn't cure you?

Will you refuse dialysis like you refused the antibiotics that could have saved your kidneys?

People were so eager to some up with something to say in chat, against my accusations so I am only wondering, did anything I wrote here or said on chat a couple of days ago, change your views of the medical industry and their so called * help* with medicine?

No, I'm aware, as most people are, that medicine has it's shortcomings, but our life expectancy has doubled in the past centuries thanks to it.
Thanks to medicine we can enjoy a range of hobbies and activities which otherwise would undoubtedly have been to risky.

Thanks to medicine we no longer have to send lepers out of cities with bells around their necks.

Thanks to medicine we can save thousands of people affected by drought, flood, war, famine, even events like Hurricane Katrina are less painful than they would have been 100 years ago.

Think of the sorrow people suffer now, and now imagine the same if every person who got an infection, every person who picked up a disease from the refuge camps had died.

Think of that and tell me medicine does not help us.

[Mongoose92]

No comment anyone? If not I'm going to take that to mean my argument was a good one

[withambition]

My girlfriend relies on medicine to keep her disease controlled because it can't be cured. I think it's downright rude of you to say that "doctors and medicine" are garbage. Perhaps some doctors are in it for the money, but the reality is that most are not. Doctors go to school for at least 8 years - the cost of that alone is outstanding. And how could you say that doctors don't study diseases and illnesses? I can guarantee you that there is a required pathology course at every institute for nurses and doctors.

In every other first world country besides the United States, health insurance is free and most medicines, treatments, doctor visits are completely free or inexpensive.

Some medications cause problems elsewhere, it's known as a side effect. They're likely to occur, but don't appear in a majority of most cases. The most common side effect is most likely caused due to an allergic reaction. That isn't the doctors fault though, as they're not able to foretell your reaction to a drug or treatment previously unknown to your body. Everyone reacts differently.

If you're concerned with your doctor's suggestions when you're sick, then look it up online, read some books, or switch to another doctor. It's rather ridiculous to say that some one who went to school to become a doctor is wrong. I know that it happens at times, but for the most part I'm sure they know bronchitis from mono. ;)

The bottom line is that the term "doctor" covers a variety of topics. People choose a type of medical study and become an 'expert' in it. They know what they're talking about and the medicine they provide you with has been proven to be effective against whatever illness you may have (unless you're part of a study).

Mongoose92, you made some excellent points. Don't feel too unrecognized haha =p

[Wolfhaze]

Whoa, okay.



First off, let's look at what is really being percieved as evil here: doctors choking their patients financially, particularly through the cost of medication, or just taking advantage of patients.

I can safely say here that this is a very real problem, at least in my household. At just above the fiscal poverty line in America (a household yearly income of 12k), my parents spend a couple thousand (1.5-2k) dollars a month on required, life-sustaining medication (heart, stroke, severe pain, and anti-psychosis medications). Now, do the math. Now guess where my college funding is coming from. :P

However, I have to say that there is a HUGE difference between a DOCTOR and a PHARMACEUTICAL or a COMPANY (public, private, or otherwise). That difference is what is creating the bad reputation for doctors, since they are what we see when we get sick, and it's them who we are paying... but it's what is behind them that we should be pointing the finger at.

Modern-day doctors can NOT afford to give away services or "be kind." Why? Because their patients are humans, and humans are morons. It takes one sick person who that doctor could not help to the best of their abilities to completely and utterly destroy that doctor's life, especially in American society, because people are greedy and they will sue for just about ANYTHING. Malpractice insurance is a MUST, and it is EXPENSIVE.

When it comes to health, people can easily inspire fear. Not everyone is as educated in biology as a doctor, so it's easy to incite a local riot against a person (here, the doctor) for a single screw-up.

Doctors study medicine so that they know how to treat you. It's that simple. What are they supposed to be studying? If they are studying anything else, then they are not practicing doctors -- they are researchers, psychiatrists (a different science, not to be put down), therapists... a doctor is someone who can fix your ailments (or try), and how else should they do that if they have never studied the ailment and it's common cure? They are NOT the ones who develop cures, they are merely the ones who dish it out to those in need.

The practice of medicine is not garbage; it's what keeps a lot of people alive. It's a science and a practice -- and it applies to things as simple as resetting an arm with one's own strength to brain surgery.