Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Jessica.C, Jul 20, 2011.

Death Penalty

  1. For

    17 vote(s)
    40.5%
  2. Against

    17 vote(s)
    40.5%
  3. Depends

    8 vote(s)
    19.0%
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  1. Jessica.C

    Jessica.C Member Prime Account

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    What are your thoughts on the death penalty? Are you for it, or against it?

    I am against it. Yes, I understand some people deserve it, and sometimes I feel so sickened by what someone did (like murdering a lot of people, or murdering children), so I think that this killer deserves to die, but do we teach others killing is wrong by killing killers? Death is too easy of a way out for them, I think.

    The US legalizes the death penalty, but crime rates are not lower. on the other hand, the UK does not have it, but crime rates ARE lower.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  2. kinley3

    kinley3 New Member

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    I'm going to say that I support the death penalty. To my line of thinking, it may not necessarily be a deterrent, or the setting of an example, to others. If I may make an unqualified statement, I'm fairly certain that studies have shown that capital punishment cannot be shown to be a deterrent to murder. My apologies for not putting in the time to actually find a source for such information. However, I do believe that in some extreme cases it is a warranted form of justice. It seems to me that many people fail to distinguish the difference between deterrence and justice. What is just may not deter, and vice versa.

    I understand the fact that, means must be used to make people reconsider breaking the law. But to me, justice is the more important concept. I can't understand using the death of one person in the case of an isolated incident to set a precedent for another such isolated incident. I could probably go on and on, but I'll save you the trouble of having to read such mindless drivel. You know where I stand, and that's sufficient unless any questions may arise.
     
  3. khopcraft77

    khopcraft77 New Member

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    No person or group has the right to take a life. A criminal is still a living being and should be treated as such (to a much lesser extent of course).
     
  4. kinley3

    kinley3 New Member

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    I think when you start distinguishing between classes of human, you're starting down a slippery slope. Does this simply end with criminals, or do you make this distinction for all groups of people? I just think that way of thinking can be very dangerous.
     
  5. Darkmere

    Darkmere New Member

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    I am for it .. I say eye for an eye, if you take a life then you deserve to lose yours (respectively, not saying people who self defend themselves but the unlawful taking of a life). I personally wish they would cut peoples hands off for stealing too.
     
  6. descalzo

    descalzo Grim Squeaker Community Support

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    Philosophically, I do not have a problem with the death penalty. If your crime is heinous enough, society should have the right to exact a high price. But then, one could argue that life in prison is more punishment than execution.

    Practically, I do have a problem with the death penalty. In my state, there are about 1500 murders a year. Less than one execution. Even in Texas, which had 1328 murders and 24 executions in 2009, it works out to 1 execution for every 55 murders. Is that justice, or is it a lottery?
     
  7. Jessica.C

    Jessica.C Member Prime Account

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    what if the killer is mentally ill? Shows remorse?
     
  8. f1.p183

    f1.p183 New Member

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    I'm totally against the death penalty. I don't have any statistics with me while I write this but just look at the sorts of people that end up in prison and find themselves in this predicament. They do not reflect a random cross section of society as a whole. They tend to comprise of specific groups and classes of people, in specific sections of society.

    A country that sends endless numbers of human beings to their death I think is more a reflection of their sick society than inherent badness in the individuals concerned. It's easy to label people as evil, or wicked (something that the tabloid press love to do) because it sells newspapers, but what it never does is address the underlying causes of the persons actions.

    I'm certainly not saying we should ignore what these people have done but until the underlying causes of violence and crime are dealt with violence and crime will continue.
    No disrespect to any of the people here politely posting an argument in favour of the penalty but I believe many people's arguments stem more from an inner need to make themselves feel better about themselves by contrasting there own perceived goodness with a distorted perception of others and by ignoring the injustice, corruption, inequality and social problems that are factors that contribute to crime and violence in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011
  9. stpvoice

    stpvoice Community Support Rep Community Support

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    My view on this is relatively straight forward. I believe that killing someone for a crime is allowing them to "take the easy way out". They should be forced to live their life in prison having to consider what they did every day of their life. That is true punishment. My reasoning is not humane. Some may argue that killing someone for committing a serious crime is a form of "revenge". After all, an eye for an eye and all that.
    I don't believe death is necessary to bring justice. The mental pain of having to live with oneself because of a crime would likely far outweigh the short physical pain of death, especially now due to the method(s) used.
     
  10. kinley3

    kinley3 New Member

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    In this day and time, we do not have the resources to simply put people in jail for life. It costs almost $23,000 per inmate per year as far as operating costs and care.[1] And there are over two million people in either jail or prison in the US.[2] While your goal is laudable, I just don't think it's a reasonable expectation. To be truthful, we have the most people in jail of any developed Western state, and we should actually be trying to figure out how to keep people out of jail as opposed to sending more to rot away.

    In a time where fiscal responsibility and the federal debt are prime issues to everyone, I think jails and prisons have to be put on the table. Sorry to have gotten a little carried away, I don't mean to make this post about non-violent crimes or anything that wouldn't warrant the death penalty. I simply wish to make the point that prisons and jails hold too many people as of right now, and sending more people there will just cost more money that we don't have.
     
  11. stpvoice

    stpvoice Community Support Rep Community Support

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    Very good point, but do we sacrifice justice in favour of economy? As the death penalty is frowned upon in many places worldwide now, what else do you propose we do with them?
    I'm one of those people who believe that as soon as a person is convicted of a crime, especially in serious cases, they forfeit their rights that any other human would have. Can you really class a killer as human philosophically?
     
  12. Darkmere

    Darkmere New Member

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    No excuse ... people hide behind that all the time. "Why did you kill your children?" "Oh I mentally ill I couldnt help myself" lol
     
  13. Sharky

    Sharky Community Paragon Community Support

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    They won't do it again...
     
  14. descalzo

    descalzo Grim Squeaker Community Support

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    By "endless numbers" I am assuming your are talking about China, Vietnam, or Iraq.

    And no disrespect, your last paragraph is arrogant, condescending and self-serving. You are guilty of what you claim others are guilty of. Argue facts and positions. Don't try to psychoanalyze those who disagree with you.
     
  15. khopcraft77

    khopcraft77 New Member

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    I simply meant, criminals should be treated as they are (you know, getting locked up). I also think classes of human is just stupid.
     
  16. descalzo

    descalzo Grim Squeaker Community Support

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    Several sources claim that the cost of a death penalty trial averages $1 million more than a "life without parole" trial. Then you add in the cost of appeals. Separate housing units while awaiting execution (in California, the wait is over 20 years).

    Most people use the financial argument against the death penalty, not for it.
     
  17. Jessica.C

    Jessica.C Member Prime Account

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    why did you post then?




    okay guys, another question. Who should get the death penalty? Should it just be killers? What about rapists? I know some people that believe people that rape should die too...
     
  18. kinley3

    kinley3 New Member

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    That doesn't make logical sense. Just look at the numbers of people on death row vs. the number of people serving other sentences, and the numbers would at least even out, if not tip in favor of non-death penalty inmates. The number of death penalty trials just simply isn't significant enough for that argument to hold up. If you hypothetically have one death penalty trial for every 15 or 20 lesser trials (which I would call an extremely conservative example), that $1 million extra is negated.

    As of October of last year, there were 3,249 death row inmates.[1] I've already mentioned that there are over 2 million people in jail in the United States. That comes out to much less than 1 percent. I just don't see how that holds up.

    As for prisoners awaiting execution, there's no reason why someone should sit around for 20 years while awaiting his/her death. You make a good point there, and I agree that it's absurd. So what to do about it? It's kind of a catch-22, in that you want to be fair for the appeals process and give a chance for new evidence to pop up. Because let's face it, if there's a guy on death row, we certainly want to make sure the person being executed is the guilty party. What would you suggest?
     
  19. f1.p183

    f1.p183 New Member

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    Descalzo, I don't disagree with you that my last paragraph can be perceived as arrogant but when I used the phrase "no disrespect.." I used it sincerely because I can see that the arguments people are making on here are similarly sincere and based on their own experiences. If I'm guilty of anything, I would say it's not arrogance but laziness for not expressing my point of view more fully.

    Am I guilty of claiming what I claim others are guilty of ? Absolutely. You ask me to argue facts and positions but to me as for all our arguments in here to a large extent they come from our own experience and points of view. What I'm saying is that, I see in human nature, (myself included !) this tendency for people to label others to make themselves feel better. No more or less and yes.. in this instance it was to some extent based on my own experience but there is also plenty of research that supports this view. Psychological theories point towards low self esteem and hidden prejudices as a cause for contrasting other peoples badness with our own perceived goodness.

    What I said is certainly not an attempt to psychoanalyse people here. I wouldn't know where to start. I'm just an ordinary guy logging in to the forum to make sure x10hosting doesn't ban my account so I can happily experiment with a little php and mysql :)
     
  20. Jessica.C

    Jessica.C Member Prime Account

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    The person that killed over 90 people in the youth camp in Norway got only 21 years in prison. I am against the death penalty but part of me thinks the killer deserves to die for what he did, which is SO horrible. what do other people against the death penalty think?
     
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