Do you believe in God?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Criptex, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. noerrorsfound

    noerrorsfound New Member

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    You'll have to be more specific than that. It would depend on what the "something" is. It would be quite easy for a God to convince humans of his existence; the only explanation for him not doing so if he exists is because he doesn't want to. Therefore, it's safe to say that if one is skeptical of his existence, it's not going to offend him, and one won't be punished for it.
     
  2. jaint

    jaint Member

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    I believe in a higher power, but it isn't god. It's a non-rational, non-living, non-omnipotent force that we know as nature. I don't think it acts based on morality or anything, it just works as a consequence of actions. Nature has a way of correcting whatever we humans and all other living things on this planet do. I don't think it's actually a living or concious thing, it's just a set of actions that we can't classify as belonging or operating by anything so we group it and call it nature.

    It's quite astounding because it always finds a way to correct problems as best as it can, when overpopulation occurs it throws in diseases and finds way to course correct. I know it'll sound bad but diseases come about as a result to weed out overpopulation, as we correct them more powerful strains of viruses tend to come about. If you look at it rationally, it's not like they're coming about as retaliation but as a result - we use antibiotics to cure ourselves of some disease, but the germs become resistant to our overuse and they become more powerful and when we find a cure to take those guys out, they find a way to adapt and become more powerful. It's always in check, it's why immortality will never exist.

    On this blue planet - god exists, but it's not based on morality or the afterlife, but on how we interact with it.
     
  3. browndrake

    browndrake New Member

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    Do I believe in God?

    The question was originally posted here as a topic for debate. However, it is not debatable. My beliefs are just that, mine. Whether or not I am correct, now that can be debated.

    Beliefs can be easily stated, but often are difficult or impossible to prove...at least beyond the realms of one's self.

    I could argue strongly the evidences both for and against the existence of God. What would come of it? Those who believe in God would find faults with my logic, as would those who deny the existence of God.

    The 'believers' claim feelings as evidence of God. They point to the amazing order of the universe, and the world in which we live.

    The 'unbelievers' claim that the lack of proof denies the existence of God. They point to science and what it has taught us. The scientific model shows us how to test and prove things.
    ..................................................

    I believe in God. More than that, I know that He is. I have tasted of His goodness, and can not doubt it. He has lifted me from the darkest abyss and shared His love with me. He has also, let me wander and stray, into sadness...when I would not follow Him.

    He has given us the ability to choose. He will not take that from us. However, with choice comes consequences, both good and bad. Never will He force somebody to do His will, nor even to believe in Him. However, He will enlighten all who ask of Him.
    ....................................................

    The above words will surprise few, if any. Many, who believe, have experienced these same thoughts. Many, who do not believe, are tired of this repetition.

    There are perhaps three main groups of people, with this topic:

    There are those that believe in God.
    There are those that deny His existence.
    There are those that do not know what to believe.
    ....................................................

    I propose that any person can know that God is real and lives.

    Use can the scientific method if you choose.....to find out. However, when you are done...even though you will find your proof, you will not be able to prove it to another.

    Spend some quite time and humbly ponder about God. Read scriptures, if you want. But most important of all: Go to Him in humble prayer, and ask Him if He is. It may sound paradoxical, especially for the agnostic. BUT, it will work.

    There are often some conditions though.

    Do you think that He will answer you just so that you can know? I think that often it will not be so. When you ask Him if He is, you need to be willing to follow what you learn.
    ........................................................

    I may be flamed for what I believe, and more so for suggesting that others too, can gain these beliefs. If so, refer to the top of my post. But know that I am sincere in what I have shared.

    browndrake
     
  4. manux

    manux New Member

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    Honestly?

    I'm sceptic as hell.

    So until this thing threatens me unless I treat it like a god, I will call it so, and even then I won't believe it.
    Unless, at last, he proves everything I ever though and was though is wrong, but I have this little doubt you see...
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  5. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

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    a few things wrong here. first, you ignore the existence of 2 groups of people
    those that do not believe a god or gods exist
    those that believe in a different god or gods than you


    secondly, the method you describe is definately not scientific - to be scientific it must be objective, verifiable and independantly repeatable. what you describe is a subjective experience. members of all religions make the exact same claim regarding their gods.
     
  6. Conmiro

    Conmiro New Member

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    I believe God exists, He is real in my life. He has shown many things to me and I believe his truth. Whoever does not believe in God will go to a bad place, I know that for a fact.
     
  7. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

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    do you know that, or do you believe that? if you know it, as you claim, then you can provide objective evidence and it would be demonstrable.
     
  8. browndrake

    browndrake New Member

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    I don't think that I left any groups out. (at lease how I meant it..i guess that I had clumped some together.)

    those that do not believe a god or gods exist......these I included with:
    "There are those that deny His existence."

    those that believe in a different god or gods than you.....these I included with:
    "There are those that believe in God."
    .......................................................
    I suppose that the 'clumping' would not sit well with some people. However, I believe it to be generally accurate.
    .....................................................

    As to whether or not this approach is 'scientific' is debatable. Even though it is subjective, I believe that this 'experiment' is repeatable and verifiable.
    Any scientific experiment, to be verifiable and repeatable, must be followed step by step...by anybody repeating it. To be valid, various people need to get the same results. I think that this experiment would fulfill those requirements.

    as far as the objectivity of science....although it is often present, it often is not. Many 'theories' and much 'common accepted knowledge', in the scientific world, are extremely flawed and based on antiquated ideas and dogmas. This has been proven true throughout history, as 'new discoveries' have shed light on old ideas.
    .............................................
    this is not meant to be a debate of science vs religion. Traditionally, a majority of the religions melded nicely with the science and technology of the cultures in which they were. They were not at odds with each other, rather complimentary ...........................
    Nor am I claiming that religion is scientific. Rather that the experiment that I pointed to was very similar to the scientific method.
    ..................................
    whew...I guess that was more than a mouthful.
     
  9. Kayos

    Kayos Community Advocate Community Support

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    You’re missing the obvious. There is no scientific basis for what your suggesting. Therefore the scientific method would never be able to get past the research stage let alone the testing stage.
    First, in science there is never "common accepted knowledge". However, there are laws so I'm guessing you're referring to them. Those laws are considered factual (but in the unlikely event they are proven wrong they can be changed).

    Now the idea that these theories and laws are flawed and whatever else you have said could be true in some cases, not many, but some. Could they be extremely flawed? No.

    What I have noticed is that what you are describing sounds very similar to religious teachings.

    For example:

    Ideas that are extremely flawed, which have been proven to be wrong, still get taught after thousands of years. Those ideas are based on fantasy and nothing more.
    Actually, if you take the religious teaching literally it doesn’t. You can bend, skew, mold, interpret, reinterpret, etc… those teaching to fit with science all you want, but at the end of the day they are two separate beasts. One based off of proven ideas and the other based off of faith.
    Something similar to the scientific method is still not the scientific method.
     
  10. noerrorsfound

    noerrorsfound New Member

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    If your god punishes people eternally because they don't believe an unproven and unsupported claim, your god is evil. I've mentioned this before, probably more than once in this thread. A good idea is for you to actually read the discussion that has taken place here and then try posting something well thought out.

    No, you don't know that for a fact, because facts are things that have been proven. If that has been proven, show me the proof. Whatever your religion, you are giving people a very bad impression of your god, and I question your morals if you think it would be acceptable for a god to behave that way. In fact, if you think that's acceptable, you're the kind of person who should be punished.

    The staff should be more strict with posts in Crossfire.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  11. jaint

    jaint Member

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    "I have tasted of His goodness"
    that sounded wrong lol
     
  12. theexefiles

    theexefiles New Member

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    I don't believe in any God, and I haven't for most of my life, and to be honest I can't really see science progressing far enough to prove indefinitely one way or another in my life time (and i'm only 16!). I find some aspects of religion(s) fascinating, such as the gods in Norse mythology, but I cannot really convince myself that they or any God actually exists. It would be great if I could believe, just to have the comfort of "knowing" I will go to a better place when I die, and that if stuff goes wrong then I could just tell myself its part of a bigger plan, but to be honest I doubt that we are all pawns in a big, divine game.

    I wonder that in hundreds or thousands of years time, people will look back at the faded remnants of our belief in the current gods of different religions and if they will be taught not as fact, but as how the world used to be like and how people used to think. I also think that over time more and more people will stop believing in a god or gods and declare themselves as agnostic or atheist and churches and other religious buildings will lose less power in society.

    One thing that annoys me about religious preachers is the way they try and convince people to join their religion by threatening them with the prospect of hell or eternal suffering because they have not opened their arms to god. Another thing that annoys me is when people claim atheists have no morals. I really do not get that argument, to me, if someone has morals it means they do good because they want to or know that its the best thing to do, not because they're afraid of doing bad incase they get damned to hell.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
  13. ejweb

    ejweb New Member

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    YES; I not only believe in the ONE True God but follow His Laws and examples. Remember that those who believe in evolution and not God keep in mind the theory of cause-and-effect. The bang-theory doesn't hold up because what caused it? What set it in mostion? Did it just "start"? If so; then God is the only answer. I don't rely on scientific explanations because of too many holes and justifications. They try to justify their answers to their theories for a conclusion. It's amazing of how many scientists disagree with each other on the same topic.

    Of course, believing in God comes with what each one of us have to have; faith. If you don't have faith then it is understandable you don't believe in God. Ask yourself; do you believe in the evil nature of people? Do you believe in a demonic or evil world (EPH 2:2)? If you do, then you also believe in God, but don't realize it. Even the demonic world believes in the one, true God and there were a lot of "gods" around especially over the last couple of thousand years (JAMES 1:13-15, ROM 16:1-2)...
     
  14. noerrorsfound

    noerrorsfound New Member

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    You've got to be kidding. You criticize scientists for disagreeing with each other and ignore the fact that multiple religions exist, with different stories of creation and everything else, and different Gods or different amounts of Gods. You also act like evidence is a bad thing. We've got no solid proof, so that's all we've got. It's certainly better to support your beliefs with scientific evidence than to support them with a single religious book, of which there are many.

    The questions you ask about the big bang are the same questions I ask about your God's existence.
    Where do I get this "faith" you speak of? I've grown out of religion, and the only reason I ever believed in God is the same reason I believed in Santa Claus: people said he existed, and I was just a kid, so I believed them. Faith seems impossible to achieve for an actual atheist. What causes you to get it? I need proof of God's existence to have "faith" he exists, and then it wouldn't be faith. I don't know what the term for that kind of reasoning is but I wish I did. I've never seen someone actually describe how to obtain faith; I've just seen them say it's something one needs to have.

    Considering I have no idea what you mean by a demonic or evil world, I don't believe in it. I suppose I believe in the "evil" nature of people if you mean their tendency to do bad things, but your conclusion is unsupported. People do bad things for many reasons (including because they think their God wants them to). However, I don't see how you can come to the conclusion you did. I believe people are not always nice and don't always do the right thing, so I believe in a God? That's just crazy. And why would I have a subconscious belief that God is real? What would have put that into my head (I doubt that is naturally wired into our brains)? Simply due to the lack of proof I've got no reason to believe such a thing, so why would I subconsciously be convinced otherwise? Please help me out here, since I'm not good with psychology crap.

    Another question I have about faith, is does your God punish people for having the wrong faith? Religious people usually don't choose their religion, but instead believe what their parents believe, or what most people around them believe. What if I grew up being taught about the Greek gods, and I died having faith in them? The Christian Bible says, "You shall have no other gods before me," so would I be punished?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
  15. agroup

    agroup New Member

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    I Belive In GoD. According To Our Religion.
    Just want to share my comment
     
  16. Soki

    Soki Banned

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    Evidence...*looks around* Nope. Nothing here either...

    I agree with you 100%, truthguild.

    First of all your quote from Albert Einstein has nothing to deal with GOD existing or not...
    Either you don't understand the qoute or you copied & pasted the wrong one.
    Anyways, I'd love to see this 1,000 aged Bible you speak of.

    "everything was perfect..."
    Nothing/nobody is perfect.

    "in a little book..."
    That thing is not little at all.
    It can be used as a weapon...

    "He's more real than us"
    Funny, I thought there was only Real an FAke..
    It seems like you just created "Realer"...

    The Bible was created by a man named Jesus (heh-soos) who wrote novels and of the such.
    Well, one day a friend of his saw this book and thought of all the riches he could make with it as many loved these novels.
    So, he killed his friend and took claim that he wrote this book.
    The next day the publisher read it and just knew it had to have been Jesus' work.
    So, the publisher made a few changes in the book to make sure Jesus was recognized for his work.
    As time went on, many found out of this horrible crime that happened and Jesus' friend, Satan (sah-tahn), was sent to jail.
    He escaped and was found weeks later.
    They decided to pubish him by leaving Satan to starve outside on a couple of logs tied up.
    Well, a friend of his snuck in to help release Satan.
    The next day, everyone was shocked to see Satan walking along the streets unharmed and not starving.
    Gossip pread throughout the towns.
    A man decided to collect these stories he heard and write them in a book (The Bible).
    With everyone misunderstanding the story, by the time it reached him, his version of what really happened was all wrong and of the such.
    So, with all the different stories heard, people tried fixing it up by creating their own versions.
    Until finally many got fed up and declared a meeting to create one "true" Bible and put their names in different sections/chapters/w.e.
    See how much more believable my made-up story of the bible is?

    "but now I can see God in everything I see, everywhere I go..."
    Doesn't it get a bit awkward when your taking a dump?
    How about when you are trying to watch a movie?
    I'd hate to see him in front of my TV all day everyday and not be able to watch anything...

    I hear all this junk about God's love be cost free, but you need a Bible to get to it...his Bible is not free...
    It costs nearly as much as 1 subscription to Playboy.

    "and that includes the extintion of some animals that were a hazard for the human specie... because is common sense that we cannot live in a world with huge creatures trying to eat us."

    Care to explain a shark?
    How about how we are eating other things?
    Thought he cared about all his creatures...

    "when God decides that your eyes are gonna be open... you can't do nothing about it.."
    I can could close them or go play some video games...
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
  17. nuno_18

    nuno_18 New Member

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    yah... very nice story.....

    i belive sometimes in god.... sometimes God does not believe in us....
     
  18. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

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    which particualr god are you claiming it is, and what evidence do you have for those claims?
    the big bang theory is not related to the theory of evolution
    intellectual honesty would require that we admit we don't know. not knowing something, however, is not evidence of the supernatural.
    that's a logical fallacy. to insert any answer, evidence to support it must be provided (i could just as easily argue that the Great Green Arkleseizure sneezing the universe into existence is the only answer)
    gaps in human understanding are to be expected, we actually wait until we have evidence before we try positting answers.
    they justify their answers with evidence.
    and if you look at the disagreements, they are usually minor aspects of major priciples. biologists don't argue about whether evolution did or does occur - but over exactly what roles were played to what degrees by which mechanics. geologists don't argue between the ideas of a 6,000 year old earth vs. a 4.5 billion year old earth but a 4.54 billion year old earth vs. a 4.56 billion year old earth (values that are within 1% of each other).

    there is no benefit to faith - it's just an excuse for intellectual laziness.
    no. human nature contains both what could be considered good and what could be considered evil.
    no, as i have never seen any evidence of demons
    now that you added another assertion - you'll need to not only provide evidence for your god, but also for demons. as you point out, there were a lot of other gods - is there any evidence by which you can support your claim for god that can't support other gods?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  19. Soki

    Soki Banned

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  20. Parsa44

    Parsa44 New Member

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    I believe in god incase god does really exist?

    My view on this is the "gain" "gain" situation.

    Of you say you believe in god you don't loose anything? And atleast if god does REALLY exist then "it" has no reason to punish you.

    If god doesnt exist where did the universe start?
    (dont you dare say big bang because the material to "bang" had to come from somwhere in the first place)
     

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