Suggestions for a more effective forum

[eN0ch]

Hi Corey & all,

I've been thinking about this stuff for quite a while, but now feel motivated to write after feeling the frustration you've expressed through the recent server upgrade process. (Unnecessary support tickets, announcements not read, etc.)

I understand that frustration. But I'd like to say kindly, that I think I can understand partly why some of that stuff happens on here. With all respect, I'd have to say that this forum is not one of the most newbie-friendly ones I visit, and in fact I suspect it's not only the noobs who get confused by it.

So my purpose here is to offer some suggestions which I trust are constructive. I'm a big fan of what you guys do for us free account users (and others for that matter), so in no sense is this a gripe. But I hope an outsider's observation might be valuable for all concerned.

OK. These are some observations I'd make of the forum as it currently operates:

• 
  Section headings ("Important links", "x10Hosting", "The Community" etc) don't make much sense.

• 
  Neither does the placement of some individual forums within that structure.

• 
  Support ticket link is in the top section, before news, alerts, etc. And it's subheaded "x10Hosting official support help desk". So it may be understandable if the average newbie whose site is suddenly inaccessible clicks straight on that link. (Official support is likely what they think they want .. so why read further? (trying to place myself in a newbie's shoes ... ) )

• 
  Next link is "Community Support", which may reinforce the impression that everything you could want to solve your problem is right here in this top section - official support and peer support. (So again - why look further?)

• 
  And clicking on that drops you down to the "Community Support" section, which is distinct from and some distance from the section called "The Community". (Further room for confusion there ...) If you want peer support you go for "Community Support"; if you want official support you go for "Support Ticket".

• 
  And when you get dropped down to "Community Support > Free Hosting" you find the description: "Unofficial member support area. For official support please open a ticket." Further reason to believe that a support ticket is the starting point if peer support doesn't satisfy.

• 
  And one more on same line: If you're a newbie with a paid account, you don't want "Free Hosting", so you'll default to "Support Ticket" which will look like the only place to get what you want.

• 
  Second section is called "x10Hosting", which is frankly a bit meaningless when the whole thing is x10Hosting anyway! In what sense are these forums "x10Hosting" in a way that all the other forums aren't? Or if you're a newbie .. "This is the x10h forum, and that's what I want, so all the other stuff on this page isn't for me."

• 
  "x10Hosting" section contains 4 sub-forums. Nos 1, 2 & 4 are meant to be read-only. But No 3 is for users to post in. So if you're invited to post in one, why (thinking as newbie) wouldn't you expect to post in the other 3 as well? After all, all four look the same graphically. So why not expect all four to be discussion forums?

• 
  "News and Announcements" and "Server Alerts" are in this second section. But if these are meant to be the first place you look, shouldn't they be listed as "Important links" too?

• 
  "Community Support" is buried at the very bottom after everything else - including the Spanish section. So if you haven't clicked "Community Support" in the "Important Links" section, you may never discover the "Free Hosting" forum at all.

So here's what I'd recommend. Others may be able to improve on it still further:

• 
  Put "News and Announcements" and "Server Alerts" in a separate section at the very top. Make the whole section read-only, and graphically distinct and striking. Give it a very obvious label such as "Read here before posting in any forum or opening a support ticket."

• 
  Further variation: maybe even have the above two read-only links as the only thing on the front page.

• 
  Set it up so that non-current or resolved news/ alerts are archived through a link at the bottom of the page.

• 
  Maybe add "Promos" in at the bottom of this section, but make it less obvious than the others.

• 
  Next section would be headed "Getting started". Might include current links "Introductions" and "Tutorials", and maybe some others??

• 
  3rd section would be headed "Official Support" and would contain an invitation to open a support ticket (with a link, of course). Description should say in bold letters "Please check 'News and Announcements' and 'Server Alerts' before opening any ticket."

• 
  After a person clicks to open a ticket, the first screen requires them to click a box confirming that they've read current news and alerts. (Variation: maybe even have the first screen take them straight to the news/ alerts en route to the ticket form.)

• 
  Fourth section "Community Support", with sub-forums "Ad-Free Hosting", "Ad-Supported Hosting", "Paid Hosting" and the Spanish one.

• 
  After those 4 sections I'd put the remainder pretty much as is, but in this order: site design, site promotion & Espanol.

That's been a very long post, but I sincerely offer these thoughts in the hope that such a re-design would make everyone's lives much more pleasurable

 

[Elesarr]

I think your suggestion is a great one and agree with you. It is a bit daunting here if you are unfamiliar with the way the forums work and it would certainly take a load of stress off the staff!

Cheers!

 

[zen-r]

I agree in general with most of your points.

I think the problem for staff in getting things improved is the usual Catch22 : a large part of their heavy workload is caused by tickets & queries, caused in turn by poor forum design. As a result, they don't have time to improve the design, so they get more work caused by more queries.......and so on. Also, when the problems reduce back a bit & staff have more time to do other stuff, they think "well, we're not getting many queries, so the forum design must be fine!"

And once you've got used to the forum's design it seems OK, so, as you say, it needs an outsider's or noob's eyes to see the design problems.

I myself have also raised a few issues over the months, though not as ambitious as a complete forum re-design!

For example, in this thread ; http://forums.x10hosting.com/off-to...ble-post-announcements-thread.html#post548067 I made some suggestions, & Corey has since improved things to keep the News Updates read-only (ie. free from members' comments - members now get their own thread for this) & also started adding dates to the titles of his News Updates. This is a good start.

However, I personally still think we could have just 1 News thread for each server. 1 News thread for Forum news. 1 News thread for General news..... & I'm open to suggestions for a few other possible topics!

That way, I can subscribe to news on General, Forums & Stoli, & ignore news on the other servers. And I'd always know if something new was announced because I'd be notified of new posts in those threads, without having to keep searching the forum. At the moment, new Update threads keep being started all the time, rather than just sticking to 1 thread. We never receive notifications of new threads until we happen to find them & subscribe to them. Hence people keep missing the latest news. The first they know of a problem may be when they discover their website has been down for a week already, by which time they are angry! They may log in & check the forum once every week, but that may still mean they miss a 3 day fore-warning of planned server work.

If the News was all in one thread, in chronological order as I suggested, then noobs & oldies alike could receive email notifications & just read the most recent post added to the thread, which should describe the current state of play. People can then read further back through that thread if interested, but it shouldn't be necessary unless they want a background to the "story so far".

When you look for News in the official Support page, you will see little or nothing there. The info there could in future be just a copy of the new single News thread which I am suggesting.

On the subject of official Support, the Knowledge Base is rather thin on material - though I expect staff know that, & it's a (slow) work in progress. That page seems rather a replication of the tutorials found in the forum. I think all the best tutorials should be tidied up, indexed, & made easier to find. There especially needs to be 1 up-to-date, totally thorough step-by-step guide to setting up your new site, for noobs. It should have links off it to other tutorials which give greater detail on specific types of set-up.

I raised the issue of tutorials on my thread ; http://forums.x10hosting.com/off-topic/98105-should-we-target-geocities-users.html and people like Smith6612 said he was interested in looking at doing tutorials, especially video tutorials.

This is the problem though: we can all come up with suggested improvements. But who is going to implement them? Unless a few people (with suitable skills & experience) step forward & offer their time, this will only ever amount to a discussion. Nothing more. :happysad:

Please click my Reputation button

(at the corner of this post) & make me -it costs you nothing!

If I've traded services/credits with you, please remember to leave iTrader Feedback. Thanks.​

 

[eN0ch]

You've thought through some of the details more than I have, so I can't comment on some of your points. But as you said of my comments - I'm in general agreement with what you're saying. I think you've expressed well what's probably going on for the developers.

If I were a geek I'd gladly contribute my own labour to improving things. Unfortunately I'm not, so all I can do is generate thoughts and ideas. You're right - we need people who know the drill to pitch in.

 

[eN0ch]

zen-r:

Thanks for the reputation points

Given that most of the alligators seem to have been fished out of the swamp now (judging from lack of announcements and less frenetic forum activity) -- I'm wondering whether Corey is aware of my original post. I don't know whether he gets to read everything that lands on here, but I'm guessing that may be impossible???

I'm also guessing you may be one of those who's able to flag stuff for his attention?? If so, can I urge you to do so with this? It may well be that a wholesale forum redesign job is plain unrealistic; but if he's at least able to have a read, maybe the awareness raising will be a good thing all round ...

 

[zen-r]

Sorry eN0ch, I carry no more weight than yourself or any other member in these forums.

Corey does seem to dip into other threads besides the Update discussions from time to time, so I wouldn't be surprised if he has already seen this one.

It's hard to tell though, just how far from completing all the server upgrade work they actually are. Whilst all the account transfers & main software installations are now complete, the fine tuning could go on for some time still. And there's no word yet on how well the tests went, after taking measures to avoid having to lose cPanel.

I wouldn't put any pressure on staff to start worrying about these suggestions, until things look a lot more settled here, & the servers have less issues with being up/down all the time. I've certainly left my GeoCities thread alone since I first started it, since I really don't think Support could cope with any great influx of new members in the near future, were my ideas to get implemented.

Ideally, our ideas for improving the forum's layout would have been made earlier, so that the benefits they could bring would have made life easier for everyone during the server upgrades. Unfortunately, I think that trying to get anything done just now is a little bit too optimistic!

(Note: I did suggest here that it would cut down on confusion for members, & unnecessary Support tickets for staff, if quicker logging of known faults/ issues was made in the News threads by staff - stating whether people with the problem in question should or should not get a Support ticket.)

 

[garrettroyce]

You should suggest a "suggestions" board for just such an occasion as this

I think normally by now one of the staff would have happened across the thread and said at least "we acknowledge this thread's existence" but these are some pretty extenuating circumstances right now. Maybe if you PM one of the lower staff members, they can bring it to Corey's attention at a more opportune moment. Maybe one of the regular (non-global) moderators would be willing to help?

 

[eN0ch]

Thanks, guys. Guess I'll just sit on it for a while till things settle further.

Where would I find out who the lower staff are to PM them?

Thanks.

 

[zen-r]

Thanks, guys. Guess I'll just sit on it for a while till things settle further.

Where would I find out who the lower staff are to PM them?

Thanks.

http://forums.x10hosting.com/staff.php

You should suggest a "suggestions" board for just such an occasion as this

That's actually a good idea Garrett.

Where would you suggest that I suggest the suggestions board?

 

[eN0ch]

http://forums.x10hosting.com/staff.php

Ah, right, thanks. Didn't find that -- which may be entirely topical ...

 

[Livewire]

Where would you suggest that I suggest the suggestions board?

I know!

http://forums.x10hosting.com/project.php?projectid=1

The Feedback & Suggestions project-tool area, right below News/Announcements.



Course it's been hijacked recently and mostly contains posts from people attempting to get help, which needs an adjustment (should really be a forum with mods, and penalties for not reading the rules in there, although I would like to see a mod re-instated for Force Read - can't post without reading the particular thread in question).



My guess is staff haven't looked there recently because of all the misplaced support requests, but it's still worth a shot.

Next best place is Off Topic

 

[Corey]

I read everything, I just don't get a chance to always respond right away. If a thread isn't typed in all caps and has a decent structure I'll sumble upon it eventually. We'll see about implementing some more suggestions soon!

 

[zen-r]

Thanks Corey.

It's nice to know that "Big Brother" is always watching us.

Keep up the good work!

I know!

http://forums.x10hosting.com/project.php?projectid=1

The Feedback & Suggestions project-tool area, right below News/Announcements.

Of course, my question had only been a leg-pull, but re your suggestion of where I should suggest the suggestions board:

The project area is locked at the moment - at least to me it is ; "you do not have permission to access this page."

I'd imagine that this is for the very reason you have mentioned :- because people have been abusing the area by using it for Support requests. :happysad:

 

[garrettroyce]

I read everything, I just don't get a chance to always respond right away. If a thread isn't typed in all caps and has a decent structure I'll sumble upon it eventually. We'll see about implementing some more suggestions soon!

The omnipresent Corey has noticed you!

I think he has a 6th sense for finding important threads in the forum, no matter where they are, and responding to them. I'm jealous, I have to dig through 20 stupid posts to find one decent in the whole bunch :biggrin:
Edit:

I know!

http://forums.x10hosting.com/project.php?projectid=1

The Feedback & Suggestions project-tool area, right below News/Announcements

I think due to some error, us non VIP users don't have access to this feature

 

[Kayos]

Moved to Feedback and Suggestion

 

[Livewire]

Judging by the news/announcements post about Feedback & Suggestions being opened, I am willing to bet that section got closed not long after I mentioned where it was, probably in preparation for it getting replcaed with a proper forum section where posts that aren't in the right area could get moved to, AND from.

Least this way if someone posts a support request here, it can get moved back out to where it actually belongs

 

[eN0ch]

Just got back to this. Glad you of your mystical omnipresence, Corey. Hope this stuff is of value. Good to see the prompt action with this feedback/ suggestions forum. Looking good.

 

[zen-r]

eN0ch, you didn't refer to it in your post - so have you read this yet? ;

http://forums.x10hosting.com/news-announcements/99054-update-6-29-09-a.html

It would seem that a complete site make-over is already under-way.

 

[eN0ch]

actually yes, I did notice that. Should have made that clear. Sounding good.